If it's about oil, just say so

Bishop of peace
The Rt. Rev. William E. Swing
Age: 66
Neighborhood: Presidio Heights
Words to live by: Keep on trucking
Inspiration: Desmond Tutu
Affiliation: Episcopal Diocese of California

BY NINA WU
Of The Examiner Staff

    Bishop William Swing of Grace Cathedral has traveled the globe,
meeting a range of religious leaders, from the Dalai Lama to the pope, to
spread his vision of ending religiously motivated violence. He put his quest
into action through the United Religions Initiative, an ecumenical
organization that promotes peace-building activities. Swing decided that peace
begins not at the top but right at home, with grassroots cooperation and
friendship among people of all faiths.

    Nina Wu: What are your worst fears of the consequences of a war
with Iraq?

    Bishop Swing: I fear for the civilian population of Iraq, I fear
for what war unleashes, I fear for the people who will make money from
the war, I fear for what kind of people that the people of the United States
of America will become.

    Q: What do you mean by what the people of America will become?

    A: I mean bullies, imperialists, people who don't tell the truth.
One of my main concerns about the war is that nobody's telling the truth --
that it's really about oil. If it's about oil, we're big boys and girls, I
wish somebody would just say it.

    Q: President Bush has drawn the battle line against what he calls
"the axis of evil." Do you think Saddam Hussein is evil?

    A: From a theological point of view, I would say that the axis of
evil is Satan, or the power of evil in the world personifies Satan. St.
Paul would say all men come short of the glory of God, that's the St.
James version ...

    Evil is throughout the world any time that greed, bullying,
misuse of power, corruption, any time the human rights of people are being
denied. There's evil every place. To say that a few people are the axis of it
is to miss the point.

    Q: What are your best hopes for the new year then? I take it this
is why you started the United Religions Initiative.

    A: My best hope would be that the world will learn to stop
thinking only in tribal, national and religious terms and will begin to understand
that there is a careful linkage between all living beings on the earth, so
that we don't wait around for leaders or churches or governments to tell
us about the environment or about peace.

    That the people of the world will rise up and claim the bonds
that we have in terms of being kinfolk with each other, instead of trading on
our national or tribal or religious uniqueness and saying, "We're
superior to other folks." There needs to be another direction of power, the power
needs to come from the bottom up.

    Q: Are you bringing religious leaders of all faiths together?

    A: In the United Nations charter, it says, "we, the people." The
United Nations is really we, the representatives of folks who are power in
our country, and not all countries are represented and not all peoples
are represented.

    When we say, we the people, of religions, indigenous traditions
and spiritual expressions, we really do mean it. This is a grassroots
self-organizing around any issue that is consistent with the mission
of URI. We have hope that people will be able to cluster around the world and
form cultures of peace, justice and healing.

    Q: At what moment did this vision for the United Religions
Initiative come to you?

    A: It was a telephone call in February 1993 from Gillian Sorenson
(then deputy secretary of the United Nations). She said that the UN was
coming to San Francisco in '95 to celebrate its 50th anniversary, and the UN
wanted to have all the nations and religions. She asked me to help arrange that
at Grace Cathedral and to bring interfaith people together.

    I went to bed that night thinking about if the nations of the
world have gathered every day, for 50 years, and the religions of the world, in
the same 50 years, haven't spoken to each other.

    Q: They've become divided and pitted against one another?

    A: If the nations of the world can have a common vocation, that's
very important, then the religions of the world need to have a common
vocation. Hans Kung, the (German) theologian, said: "There'll never be peace
among nations without peace among religions."

    Q: How has the context of URI's mission changed after 9/11? The
American public is now more antagonistic toward "Muslim extremists."

    A: I wouldn't agree with that. Americans wanted to find out about
Islam, they wanted to know the DNA of Islam. So books on Islam that were
catching dust were flying off bookshelves after Sept. 11. We have a
church-school in Oakland that now has a reciprocity with a Muslim school in Santa
Clara. Muslims have had open houses in their mosques and we find Muslims
reaching out to Americans and Americans reaching out to Muslims.

    We have 21 principles, and one of them is to give and receive
hospitality.

    Q: Explain what a cooperation circle is. You have more than 200
around the world now.

    A: We hired the man who invented the Visa card (Dee Hock) to
explain how you create a global organization that's un-bureaucratic and where the
greatest amount of authority is invested in the smallest unit. You
have seven people with three different religions, they can form a
cooperation circle around any issue they want -- one issue might be the treatment
of women in Middle Eastern countries. Another might be how to make peace
on the border of Eritrea and Ethiopia.

    People can self-organize around any issue they want. For
instance, we have five cooperation circles in the Middle East right now, with
Jews, Muslims and Christians who are meeting on a regular basis, honing
peace in their atrocious surroundings.

    This is not like Kentucky Fried Chicken where we put out a recipe
and everyone just follows the same recipe. You can address local issues,
but keep to the purpose and principles of the United Religions
Initiative. The purpose is to promote daily, enduring, interfaith cooperation and to
end religiously motivated violence.

    Q: Throughout time, most world wars have been started over
religion. Why do you think that is?

    A: Most religions have been founded upon (the concept) that God
has chosen us, and we are the true religion: Anybody who's not part of us
is not part of the true religion. If you come with the idea that you're part
of a superior race of religious people, that gives you a lot of temptation
to go after people who are not part of you -- and you can do whatever you
want to. It gets into the "master race" thinking.

    A second reason is because people who are political rulers need
all the help they can get, and if they can mobilize religious people behind
them, then they can make it a religious cause.

    Q: And that's more powerful.

    A: That's right. And the third reason would be religions get
pretty impotent sometimes, and they're looking for a break. So if they have
a chance to be coupled with some politicians, then they allow
themselves to be co-opted so they can control the religious population. There's great
competition among religions for who controls the greatest number of
human beings.

    E-mail: nwu@examiner.com